No longer the glamorous vacation

Actually, they were rather APATHETIC towards me. And it wasn’t the crew I was referring to when I wrote pathetic. It was a sign of the times that’s pathetic, so I feel no need to apologize to anyone. You can apologize to me if you’d like, or at the very least, stop with the condescending attitude.

oh, and that’s twice you’ve insulted me. First was when you asked if I was seeing professional help, and now you think they looked at me oddly for another reason. For someone ho feels the need to put self affirmations at the end of their posts, in the third person I might add, you come off as rather sanctimonious.

I just disembarked from MV 'Discovery Princess' the day before yesterday. As many here will already know, there's no more nights specifically called formal nights; it's something like gala night and dress to impress night.

I wore a tuxedo both nights: white jacket the first night, black (velvet) on the second. I was slightly surprised to see I wasn't the only man so dressed; I witnessed a handful of other men wearing proper tuxedos, particularly on the first formal night (that's what I've always called them and will continue to call them). And it wasn't that we're all octogenarians; all stuck in the past and kids-these-days types. From my observation, we were all in our 40s.

Among the remainder of the male passengers out and about on those evenings, about half were wearing a suit, sport coat, and neck tie. Subsets of those groups wore either a jacket with no tie or a tie with no jacket. This, to me or to any sartorial-minded individual, is not defined as formal. It's what one wears to a business meeting or as a guest at a summer wedding. But, at least they tried. Unlike the other half, who wore what I would wear on a weekend afternoon. And an unpleasantly surprising percentage of that latter group looked like--and this is the word that immediately came to mind at the time and I mulled over to be sure it was accurate and not just a kneejerk reaction--slobs. Downright slobs, out in public wearing clothes I might wear to do maintenance around the house or to paint in. On formal night. On an elegant ship, at sea in the Pacific Ocean. It boggled my mind.

What I also found a bit unsettling was that the majority of men got away with the aforementioned casualness--they made little to no effort--while the women, on the whole, were dressed more tatefully than their male counterparts. I frequently saw couples wherein the man had just thrown on slacks and a button-front shirt, while the woman was in a cocktail dress with a matching shawl or even a long dress, say off-the-shoulder. There were even women in full evening gown (looking beautiful) with male companions in just a black suit and open collared shirt. I sensed a sexism in that; an imbalance in the cultural expectations of men and women in the appearance department.

Anyhow, I don't think any of the above is confined to shipboard life. I think it's the general attitudes toward dressing in Western culture coming on board ships. It's the me-first mindset that's becoming so prevalent in every facet of life; but, in this particular area, it's the notion in people's minds that all they have to contribute to an upscale experience is their dollars; the thought being, "I paid for this, so I should be able to do what I want and get what I want." Hence, to them, it's perfectly okay to wear sweatpants to a finely appointed dining room staffed by attentive maître d's, sommeliers, and waiters providing visually pleasing and flavourful meals, wines, and liqueurs. To them, the idea of a social contract, wherein every diner or passenger "owes" something--namely, in this case, the effort of dressing appropriately to the occasion and environment--to their fellow diners or passengers, or even the staff serving them, is completely foreign. That's what's killing off the elegance of cruising. It's happening everywhere.

When I got on an elevator on the second formal night, a woman and her husband were already in there. The wife remarked to the man, "do you remember when you used to get all dressed up like that?" To which he did not reply, but he and I looked at each other, I awkwardly and amusedly and he with an "I don't know how to respond to that" expression. Then she said to me, "I remember when it used to be tuxedos. Then it was suits Now, it's do whatever you want. Who knows what's next?" Indeed.

If that's true then it is indeed a shame. I went to CCL's website and it appears that they do not have them on the newer ships (Mardi-Gras, Celebration and Jubilee). I realize that they are rarely used, but they can serve an important function for people with autistic and sensory issues. We have friends who have a mildly autistic child. While he is fine most of the time, there were a couple occasions where he got over stimulated and needed to retreat to a place of quiet and solitude in order to regain control over his anxiety. My friends discovered that the ship's library is an excellent resource for those instances. Not only does it fit the bill as a quiet and calm place, but the books and board games offered a nice distraction that was not available if they had to temporarily retreat to their cabin.

For that reason I seriously hope the lines will reconsider. I know they probably consider it wasted space that can better serve them by generating revenue as a bar of café, but they don't have to be large and ornate, just a well located area off the beaten path.

Can't say I agree that they are disappearing. The Joy which is a new ship has a nice Library but more impressive is the number of books spread out on shelves throughout the observation lounge.

Here’s how you can tell the quality of cruisers is going down. Ships Libraries are disappearing. Possibly card rooms too. When I asked about the library on the Summit, they looked at me oddly and said they had some books available to borrow at the main desk. Pathetic

I love pizza, I often have been known to enjoy a beer (or two) but the riff raff you describe as being "Salt of the earth" are not suitable to be on a cruise.

I am an award-winning charity worker and see people from all walks of life each weekend. My heart goes out to people who are genuinely in need. I have no tolerance for the kind of person who you are friends with that go on a cruise and be rude to the staff on board.

Lynn is beautiful

No actually I can't imagine what their homes and upbringing might be like, because there is a total DISCONNECT between their upbringing as you describe it and their conduct out in the real world..Once upon a time I lived in a rather upscale "neighborhood" up north. I found the people there to be overbearing, rude, unctious, and supercilious in the extreme. They wore their "sense of entitlement" like a badge of honor. To some, like me, found it rather disgusting. Lots of them cruised, regularly, like we did. I wouldn't go on a cruise with any of them, then or especially now. Fortunately, due to circumstances which have NO bearing on anything else in this thread (or website) I was able to move (escape) to a place more to my liking. Exactly to my liking. There are very few people here, and the ones that do live here I consider to be the salt of the earth, and would put themselves out to any level necessary to help a neighbor with a problem. I speak from experience. Some of them have homes held together with paint and the owners bad attitude. Some actually DO live out here in the back-of beyond in a trailer...I wouldn't even dignify it by calling them "mobile" homes. I'm welcome in their homes and they are welcome in mine. Been here just over 20 years now, wouldn't trade it for anything. I would take old pizza boxes and cheap beer in a FRIENDS home all week long. In truth, one wonders how YOU would define "sense of entitlement"...or perhaps easier ..a sense of superiority?

Thanks for sharing your memories of your early cruising, I had forgotten about skeet shooting off the deck on my very first cruise in 1984 on the Sea Princess. There were only a handful of passengers taking turns shooting as we sailed up the Alaskan inside passage on a surprisingly warm and sunny afternoon. I also recall it was a bit pricy, at least for me at the time.

Well ... unfortunately Lynn a number of the abusive and ignorant passengers are not from questionable family or background. ... they just think themselves better than others and crew are at the bottom of their scale ...

I have read your post with great interest and agree with everything you mentioned. Yes, its a great vacation but with the glamour of the past removed. (sadly)

I quote your comment regarding on board guests being rude to the crew.

this makes me so annoyed.

these are awful people, who i would not even converse with.

Can you imagine the type of family backgrounds and homes they come from ?

Probably littered with used pizza boxes and cheap beer. Lives in a Trailor Park with poor personal hygiene. And then they come on a cruise, and abuse the staff?

all those lovely, cute waiters?

how dare they.

Lynn is beautiful